Disrupter
[ Posts : 458 ]
 | [Post Date: 30-Jul-2008 04:14]
Quote
Ok, I had a think, and here are some values that would work better I think:
Weapon Name | Attack | Space | Damage per space (not needed but for comparison)
Laser Turret | 2 | 5 | 0.4
Ion Turret | 4 | 5 | 0.8
Plasma cannon | 12 | 10 | 1.2
Anti-matter Cannon | 25 | 15 | 1.6
Subspace beam | 100 | 50 | 2
That works much better I think 
|
|
Thats seems to fit our ideas more. I also think that missiles should be higher damage per space, but maybe fire less? If you think about missiles compared laser fire, a missiles come less often but do far more damage.
|
Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
 | [Post Date: 30-Jul-2008 11:15]
Quote
Ok, I had a think, and here are some values that would work better I think:
Weapon Name | Attack | Space | Damage per space (not needed but for comparison)
Laser Turret | 2 | 5 | 0.4
Ion Turret | 4 | 5 | 0.8
Plasma cannon | 12 | 10 | 1.2
Anti-matter Cannon | 25 | 15 | 1.6
Subspace beam | 100 | 50 | 2
That works much better I think
|
|
Having these values will lead to using only strongest weapons. Don't forget about range and formations, they must be an important part in a ship design.
I was thinking on what you've said and came with following:
- almost all beam weapons will be short range except subspace beam that will have medium range
- Plasma Cannon, Anti-matter Cannon and Subspace Beam will have shield damage bonus. No armor damage bonus for beam weapons. Some of them could have negative bonuses to armor damage.
- torpedoes will have bigger damage and take more space. Think multiplying all values with 10. Example: Nuclear Torpedo will have 40 damage 50 space and 50 cost.
- all torpedoes are long range weapons
- Nuclear Torpedo and Proton Torpedo will have armor damage bonus. Some of them could have negative bonuses to shield damage.
- finally, beam weapons will have less precision than torpedoes.
Also, I'm thinking on increasing shield capacity a little bit to make shield piercing weapons more important.
Taking all this in consideration I'll have to calculate some values for beams and torpedoes. You could try also
This message was edited by Maverick
|
Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
| [Post Date: 30-Jul-2008 11:31]
K, I've prepared 4 titans for testing. Where should I send them against your plasma titans?
Besidcant (Formation 1)
Bothbooloth (Formation 2)
Botheldra (Formation 3)
Sullbooion (Formation 4)
?
D, which fleet and what designs would you like for big battle?
This message was edited by Maverick
|
Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
 | [Post Date: 30-Jul-2008 12:28]
Quote
K, I've prepared 4 titans for testing. Where should I send them against your plasma titans?
|
|
The titans I have sent to:
Plinab
Rosilore
Ruub-Ials
Goz-Ude
Tunddoaan
Dofe
Bi-to
Daybrinine
Oikkh
Anyway, their are lots, so send how many different titans as you want. Disrupter also has some to send, so maybe leave Daybrinine
and Oikkh for him as they are nearest his empire.
Quote
Besidcant (Formation 1)
Bothbooloth (Formation 2)
Botheldra (Formation 3)
Sullbooion (Formation 4)
|
|
These were the location of my 30 cruisers that I said about yesterday, for testing formations when all ships are the same.
|
Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 30-Jul-2008 12:41]
Quote
I was thinking on what you've said and came with following:
- almost all beam weapons will be short range except subspace beam that will have medium range
- Plasma Cannon, Anti-matter Cannon and Subspace Beam will have shield damage bonus. No armor damage bonus for beam weapons. Some of them could have negative bonuses to armor damage.
|
|
I think subspace beam should be long range, because with a beam (unlike shots) its easier to hit a target far away. Because a beam weapon is big, and hard to move. So to hit a far away target you only need to make small movements to keep them in range, even if they are moving alot. Close though, its hard to keep the enemy in range, as they can move all about and out of range easy
Also, if you have no beams for long range, then people wont make fleets that are long range I dont think, because it will be hard to fight sheilds etc at that range. So everyone will use short range.
Quote
- torpedoes will have bigger damage and take more space. Think multiplying all values with 10. Example: Nuclear Torpedo will have 40 damage 50 space and 50 cost.
|
|
I think all torpedoes should have the same space, because a torpedo port is just the same size, no matter whats inside it. They should each have different ranges and attack, and also bonus damage against armour.
I think maybe 15 space for a torpedo (of any type) should be good? But also damage needs changing for it.
Quote
- all torpedoes are long range weapons
|
|
Maybe torpedoes can not be effected by range, as they explode on hit, and this explosion will be the same no matter where it hits. Where beams can weaken over time, or may spread out etc. Also like I said about the subspace beam being long range, but the others can be short...
Quote
- Nuclear Torpedo and Proton Torpedo will have armor damage bonus. Some of them could have negative bonuses to shield damage.
- finally, beam weapons will have less precision than torpedoes.
|
|
Yeah, this would be good. Maybe all beams can have a bonus over sheild, and all torpedoes a bonus over armour. (as energy VS energy is better than matter VS energy) and the other way around.
Quote
Also, I'm thinking on increasing shield capacity a little bit to make shield piercing weapons more important.
|
|
Yeah, and as these repair, they will make battles longer and more interesting. Shields should be the most important line of defence, and armour only their incase shields fail.
Quote
Taking all this in consideration I'll have to calculate some values for beams and torpedoes. You could try also
|
|
Ok, I will try and think of some...
|
Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 30-Jul-2008 13:12]
Here are some ideas for beams:
Name | Attack | Space | ~Attack per space~ |Cost | Range | Bonus
Laser Turret | 2 | 2 | ~1~ | 2 | Short | None
Ion Turret | 4 | 5 | ~0.8~ | 2 | Medium | + 50% VS Shield
Plasma Cannon | 15 | 10 | ~1.5~ | 20 | Short | None
Anti-matter Cannon | 20 | 15 | ~1.3~ | 35 | Short | + 75% VS Armour
Subspace Beam | 100 | 50 | ~2~ | 200| Long | None
Ok, I will explain the reasons for this:
Firstly the later weapons should be a bit betterm thats why you research them. But, medium range is also quite unlikely to happen, as it usualy goes either short or far, butIon turret may work better in this range, expecialy VS shield.
The Ion and Anti matter have bonuses that push the damage above the base value of the previous weapon, but only against 1 type of defence. Making them better but only in some situations, worse in others.
Subspace beam is the only long range beam, has no bonuses but is long range, if against a short range fleet it will loose power so may not be as good as it seems, depends on situation. Also, has no bonuses so may loose to other weapons at times...
Maybe all torpedeos can be mid range, meaning that they are much different from beams, and will be best mid range, but not as good in the other ranges.
This makes some difference between beams and torpedoes.
Also, here are some possible situations:
While subspace beam has 2 damage per space, Antimatter cannon VS armour has about 2.3 attack per space, making it better at armour then subspace beam, where subspace beam is better at attacking shields.
Plasma cannon also has better base attack than antimatter, so is better against shield also. It is short range though, so better than subspace beam at short range, but not as good in medium or long range.
Also, Ion turret has 1.2 attack VS shield, and may be better at mid range, not sure exactly. May need changing a bit.
Finaly, the cost per damage of earlier weapons is lower than the later weapons. With Laser turret its 1 money per attack, where with subspace beam its 2 money per attack. Making them better, but also more expencive.
So its a balance between quality and quantity also But compaired to the price of the ship it may make a difference, for example a corvette may work out cheaper using lazers, while titans should use subspace beams etc.
This message was edited by Emperor L
|
Disrupter
[ Posts : 458 ]
| [Post Date: 30-Jul-2008 14:38]
Quote
- torpedoes will have bigger damage and take more space. Think multiplying all values with 10. Example: Nuclear Torpedo will have 40 damage 50 space and 50 cost.
- all torpedoes are long range weapons
- Nuclear Torpedo and Proton Torpedo will have armor damage bonus. Some of them could have negative bonuses to shield damage.
- finally, beam weapons will have less precision than torpedoes.
|
|
I was actually thinking similarly in terms of multiplying by 10, but wasnt sure if that was way too much. I think some of the values should be switched though, so that the damage is never less then the space required.
|
Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 30-Jul-2008 15:19]
Quote
Quote
- torpedoes will have bigger damage and take more space. Think multiplying all values with 10. Example: Nuclear Torpedo will have 40 damage 50 space and 50 cost.
- all torpedoes are long range weapons
- Nuclear Torpedo and Proton Torpedo will have armor damage bonus. Some of them could have negative bonuses to shield damage.
- finally, beam weapons will have less precision than torpedoes.
|
|
I was actually thinking similarly in terms of multiplying by 10, but wasnt sure if that was way too much. I think some of the values should be switched though, so that the damage is never less then the space required.
|
|
Well, multiplying everything by 10 makes no real difference, it all works out the same anyway...
And that wont solve the problem that some weapons work out better than others, like I think it was proton torpedo will still be best...
|
Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
| [Post Date: 30-Jul-2008 16:08]
Quote
Well, multiplying everything by 10 makes no real difference, it all works out the same anyway...
And that wont solve the problem that some weapons work out better than others, like I think it was proton torpedo will still be best...
|
|
Multiply by 10 was given just that you have the idea for the magnitude of values. Of course there will be values balancing. I would like to achieve the effect when a torpedo hits a target then target should fill it. Increasing used space will decrease number of shots and thus overall damage. As a side effect only medium and big ships would be capable of carrying torpedoes.
I think that torpedoes must be predominantly long range. They should have very high speed to be able to reach its destination. Thus on short range its maneuverability would be very bad. But, like in beams weapons we could have 1 short range torpedo for short range battles/tactics.
|
Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 31-Jul-2008 13:44]
Ok, from the battles yesterday the plasma titans won every battle.
Also, your fleets were set to far, mine medium, resulting in a long range battle, and my ships still won, even with only short range weapons.
So I think this proves that the plasma cannons are too powerful at least 
Ok, next test. I want to test the power of the Proton Torpedo, because I think this is the same.
So, please can you make 3 different new classes of Battleships using ONLY torpedoes as the weapons, using all space, and the best other equipment (shield, armour etc), and I will make 3 battleships with best equipment using only proton torpedoes. It may be quicker to order them to database, at 3 different stars, and could you give me 3 of my Proton Battleship (1 at each star where you make yours) so we can test the battleships their, I think the Proton Battleships will win each time also, no matter what the range.
I think this will work out the same, as they have the best damage:space ratio of all torpedos.
This message was edited by Emperor L
|
Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
| [Post Date: 31-Jul-2008 14:36]
Quote
Ok, from the battles yesterday the plasma titans won every battle.
Also, your fleets were set to far, mine medium, resulting in a long range battle, and my ships still won, even with only short range weapons.
So I think this proves that the plasma cannons are too powerful at least
Ok, next test. I want to test the power of the Proton Torpedo, because I think this is the same.
So, please can you make 3 different new classes of Battleships using ONLY torpedoes as the weapons, using all space, and the best other equipment (shield, armour etc), and I will make 3 battleships with best equipment using only proton torpedoes. It may be quicker to order them to database, at 3 different stars, and could you give me 3 of my Proton Battleship (1 at each star where you make yours) so we can test the battleships their, I think the Proton Battleships will win each time also, no matter what the range.
I think this will work out the same, as they have the best damage:space ratio of all torpedos.
This message was edited by Emperor L
|
|
I think they will.
I propose to implement all changes to weapons and torpedoes and test them in new battles. I'll take your stats for weapons and calc some stats for torpedoes. Then we'll try new weapons in battles.
|
Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
| [Post Date: 31-Jul-2008 14:38]
Also, it would be better if we clear database from all old ships, so I need your confirmation, K, if are ok with that. When D will be online, I'll ask him too.
|
Disrupter
[ Posts : 458 ]
| [Post Date: 31-Jul-2008 14:50]
Quote
Also, it would be better if we clear database from all old ships, so I need your confirmation, K, if are ok with that. When D will be online, I'll ask him too.
|
|
Define "old ships".
|
Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
| [Post Date: 31-Jul-2008 14:57]
Quote
Quote
Also, it would be better if we clear database from all old ships, so I need your confirmation, K, if are ok with that. When D will be online, I'll ask him too.
|
|
Define "old ships".
|
|
Means that all existent ships, all queued ships and all ship designs will be deleted from database. New values change balance a lot so old ships will not be suitable for any tests.
|
Disrupter
[ Posts : 458 ]
| [Post Date: 31-Jul-2008 16:54]
Quote
Means that all existent ships, all queued ships and all ship designs will be deleted from database. New values change balance a lot so old ships will not be suitable for any tests.
|
|
*sigh*
K, wheres that armada you had. We need to fight now. My current Grand Armada stands at over 600 ships strong. And it all has to go bye bye.
I say that all military ships should be purged, regardless of whether or not they fit the update. If they do, just save the design somewhere and remake them. All ships in existence or soon to be should be destroyed, excepting colony ships, freighters, and probes.
This message was edited by Disrupter
|
|
