Disrupter
[ Posts : 458 ]
 | [Post Date: 10-Jul-2008 18:25]
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No, no krogn or fagur involved  . Actually I got this X thing from a very popular game from 4x series. It comes from "Xeno".
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Sounds like Galactic Civilizations 2, they had xeno things as far as i remember.
Oh, and building stuff is killing me at the moment, it wrecks my income.
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Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
 | [Post Date: 10-Jul-2008 18:31]
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No, no krogn or fagur involved . Actually I got this X thing from a very popular game from 4x series. It comes from "Xeno".
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Sounds like Galactic Civilizations 2, they had xeno things as far as i remember.
Oh, and building stuff is killing me at the moment, it wrecks my income.
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You are right. I was editing my post when you replied
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Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
 | [Post Date: 10-Jul-2008 18:57]
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in this game they call it "Xeno ...". SO I made it a s an abbreviation. 
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No, no krogn or fagur involved
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Oh, right. I looked it up, and Xeno comes from 'strangers' in greek...so, thats like alien technology. If its not krong/fagur, then its human invention, so...
[q]Feel free to invent something new
I was thinking of X as in unknown, sort of like a future technology...not sure...will try and think
This message was edited by Emperor L
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Disrupter
[ Posts : 458 ]
| [Post Date: 10-Jul-2008 19:03]
For some of them you could use Adv. as in advanced. Like Advanced Biology or Psicology.
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Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
| [Post Date: 10-Jul-2008 20:16]
I'm thinking of changing the colonization sub tree.
To colonize a planet you'll need X-Colonization only. Then next 3 theories will be a logical chain for gaea and terraforming. I'll decrease all research costs for this items a lot, so a player could terraform much earlier then was supposed.
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Disrupter
[ Posts : 458 ]
| [Post Date: 10-Jul-2008 20:28]
I dont know about K, but im suffering bad over here.
I cant do a damned thing because of research times and maintanence costs. It takes me a few hours to do one research, and then to build the building drains my income and adds more maintanence on and raises my pollution.
I desperatly need a colony ship, but i cant afford one yet...
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Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
| [Post Date: 10-Jul-2008 20:47]
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I dont know about K, but im suffering bad over here.
I cant do a damned thing because of research times and maintanence costs. It takes me a few hours to do one research, and then to build the building drains my income and adds more maintanence on and raises my pollution.
I desperatly need a colony ship, but i cant afford one yet...
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Well everything is quite good on my side. 8 on food, 6 on production, 2 on research. This are my stats 182(-2)|45|0/0|9. I have a colony ship and second is half ready.
I agree that we still have to balance things and find a good starting setting so average player wouldn't go insane  Make your proposals or at least describe what is bothering you or is not clear. This will help me to find a solution.
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Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 10-Jul-2008 22:06]
Well, I have colonised 1 planet so far...that part seems fine, and what ou said about removing the different planets kinds from colonization would be good...although, I did say before about making the planets and terraforming different brances. Maybe that would be better?
Afterall, crystalline should be harder than plagic, shouldnt it?
Anyway, I agree with what Disrupter said, I am doing 'fine' as far as I am growing and surviving, but even then it seems like surviving is all I am doing...I am making progress, but I dont know, its not fun and thats the biggest problem. While it all works and nothing is really wrong, it feels more like your being held back, than being chalenged...if that makes sence...
I dont know, it should be hard if their is a reason for it, but not just for the sake of being difficult...I can survive no matter how hard it is, but their needs to be a balance between fun and chalenge...as far as I see its a bit slow, while we are progressing, it dont mean a lot. Games need action, and the whole building for days before you even get a single war ship seems to be a bit of a problem
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Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 10-Jul-2008 22:43]
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Make your proposals or at least describe what is bothering you or is not clear.
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Really the biggest problem now is maintenance. Its far too high I think...and it dont really add a lot to the game as far as fun goes. I dont know, but do buildings need maintenance at all?
Really as far as I see it maintenance should be more of a little thing in the background that only really becomes a problem if you have HUGE amounts of fleets. Not something that is always getting in your way...
In DQ:E it only becomes really an issue when you have several million ships, and even then its managable. Compaired to the cost of building them its nothing...
With this though, a ship with 1% of build cost as maintenance is really taking more tha that, because is 2 production = 1 income? Meaning its taking 2 times the production...
In this case, your paying for the ship again in just 50 turns...if my maths is right 
Maybe 0.1% would be better, I think it needs to be MUCH lower...something like this, and much lower or no maintenance on buildings would really help I think...
Anyway, this is something I have been thinking about for a while, about games in general...
Basicaly, while maintenance and things make it realistic...it makes things less fun. Everyone hates maintenance costs , they just want to build and not worry after that point...but why have it if this is the case? I know its realistic, but the whole point in playing games is to escape reality, games can avoid the problems of real life, and thats what makes them fun
This is what was good about DQ:E, you could just keep building, and maintenance wasnt much a problem, although it was their, it didnt get in the way.
Players wern't limited much, they could do basicaly anything including destroy the galaxy . It was chaotic and fun...but also allowed a good strategy under this.
Right now it seems too much about micro-management, and not enough action. And that I think seems to be the problem
This message was edited by Emperor L
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Disrupter
[ Posts : 458 ]
| [Post Date: 11-Jul-2008 05:54]
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Really the biggest problem now is maintenance. Its far too high I think...and it dont really add a lot to the game as far as fun goes. I dont know, but do buildings need maintenance at all?
Really as far as I see it maintenance should be more of a little thing in the background that only really becomes a problem if you have HUGE amounts of fleets. Not something that is always getting in your way...
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I agree but i dont agree.
I dont agree: Maintenance the way it is now is very challenging, i am just now building a colony ship, and i can only afford to do so by draining my income 80% before its built. Its not perfect, but its not too high.
I agree: It could be lower and should be balanced more, maintenance should really start to hurt with fleets of any size. It is annoying when everything you do adds either a lot or a little bit of maintenance to your ever growing pool. Hopefully ill stock alot up after my colony ship, but K is right that it seems to hinder too much too early on.
Even if all the building values were lowered by 50%, i'd still have like 14-16 maintenance, so its not a big hit. I think that (but i dont know if this is already the case) bigger better things will need more maintenance.
Either that or we need more maintenance reducing things, something that lowers it by 10% or by 20%, i dont suggest anything lowering it more then 30-35% though.
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Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
| [Post Date: 11-Jul-2008 10:12]
Maintenance is an important part of DQ:H. I agree that as it is now its too much for a first time player. It is ok for average and good players though. But as K stated we are here for fun . No fun - no players, no players - no potential real income
So I'm reviewing all buildings maintenance costs right now. You'll notice the effect when its changed.
Fleets maintenance is another problem. I wouldn't like to have 10s of thousands of ship for 1 empire. I would like to have about 100 ships per large well developed colony. Military units are expensive in maintenance and should remain so. Of course we'll balance all costs and equipment strength for them. But still a military ship should be an expensive toy
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Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 11-Jul-2008 11:01]
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Maintenance is an important part of DQ:H. I agree that as it is now its too much for a first time player. It is ok for average and good players though. But as K stated we are here for fun . No fun - no players, no players - no potential real income
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So I'm reviewing all buildings maintenance costs right now. You'll notice the effect when its changed.
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Fleets maintenance is another problem. I wouldn't like to have 10s of thousands of ship for 1 empire. I would like to have about 100 ships per large well developed colony. Military units are expensive in maintenance and should remain so. Of course we'll balance all costs and equipment strength for them. But still a military ship should be an expensive toy
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I am not saying 10's of thousands, but a good few hundred at least
But anyway, after building maintenance is changed that should help.
This message was edited by Emperor L
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Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
| [Post Date: 11-Jul-2008 12:29]
I've prepared a bit DQ:H Encyclopedia - Buildings - Ground page. You can now see the stats for all ground buildings.
EDIT: New building maintenance values set.
This message was edited by Maverick
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Disrupter
[ Posts : 458 ]
| [Post Date: 11-Jul-2008 14:49]
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I've prepared a bit DQ:H Encyclopedia - Buildings - Ground page. You can now see the stats for all ground buildings.
EDIT: New building maintenance values set.
This message was edited by Maverick
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Yay! Now i can make my colony ships and use them too
I agree with you completely about the "expensive toy" aspect of the military ships. They shouldnt be too expensive, fleets are the soul of military campaigns and actions, but not so cheap that you can have 12 different fleets named after various astrological symbols etc.
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Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 11-Jul-2008 19:32]
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Yay! Now i can make my colony ships and use them too
I agree with you completely about the "expensive toy" aspect of the military ships. They shouldnt be too expensive, fleets are the soul of military campaigns and actions, but not so cheap that you can have 12 different fleets named after various astrological symbols etc.
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Heh, I will have my fleets...one way or another...
Also, the guide looks good. Just on question though, do things with no value entered for maintenance mean these have 0 maintenance? If so thats great .
BTW, I think the maintenance is much better now
This message was edited by Emperor L
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