Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
 | [Post Date: 14-Dec-2008 18:16]
I have a feeling that research costs are a bit low. We are still in first half of the game and a good part of tech tree is already researched. Don't you think? :
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Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
 | [Post Date: 15-Dec-2008 13:21]
I actualy think its too high, I would expect to have most techs by second half, except the most advanced ones.
Right now it seems that research + build is all you really do, and not nearly enough battles (the thing we play for). If you get the best technologies a few turns before the end, then you don't get chance to use them. Just having techs is not the end, you then need to build a fleet of ships, and then make use of them. I would expect my best fleets to last a decent ammount of time, not just exist for few hundred turns at the end.
I know its hard to compare, but in DQ:E by turn 1000 or so, I would have several million transports, and 90+ planets, and from that point could take MANY of the best defended planets in the galaxy. Research served as a way of strengthening your fleets, not making them obsolete. While ship numbers are less, I would expect around the same kind of power by this time, yet I don't have a single war ship. I know I havent been playing much, but even then I am in 6th place out of 35.
Anyway, a few ways to make changes are:
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Firstly, all ship equipment within a class (beam, armour, engine etc) should be equal in price/size etc. But be better in its main stat.
When building ships, you don't equip specific weapons, instead a weapon type (beam, torpedo, bombs).
When a new weapon is researched, all ships get upgraded (automaticaly and for free).
This prevents fleets becomming obsolete, and become more of an advantage to build fleets early. Researching new techs has an immediate advantage on battle, and does not require all fleets to be rebuilt.
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Another option (one I like much more) is to not have weak to strong beams, but instead make certain beams better against certain armours/shields.
All beams/torpedoes start the same strength, and can be researched in any order, BUT, the number of shots of a particular type fired by an empire, increases that empires attack strength with that weapons, lets say 'element'. A experience system could be added, and as empires fight, they either become ok with all 'elements', or specialise in a particular 'element'. In they end, you could have an empire with extreemly powerful plasma attacks, and another who has extreemly poweful anti matter weapons, or another who has average strength wepons of all types.
Also, sheilds and armours wont be numbered, and can also be researched in any order. Each would have its own strengths and weaknesses. And for example, one armour may be weak against plasma (take 10 times the dammage), or take 1/10 dammage against antimatter.
Ships can have as many different shields/armours as they want (but it takes space) and can be customised to either specialise in a particular 'element' or be build to be good against all.
In this way, it gives players more cusomisation over their empire, and in a way players can develop their own class. This makes alliances much more stratigic, and useful, as each can cover anothers weaknesses.
This message was edited by Emperor L
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Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
| [Post Date: 15-Dec-2008 15:02]
Your ideas have sence in them, but they would requier a total recoding of the ships/battle subsytems.
As I understand and noticed we lack battles in the early stage of the game. My thoughts on how to ameliorate this would be as follows:
- make first classes available faster (less costs/dependencies)
- make military buildings less powerfull or more expencive in research (Example: Now if you have a missile base in orbit you will not be able to destroy it with small early ships. I don't really like this )
- increase engines speed so early ships could reach enemy colonies faster, before a huge deffencies could be built.
- relativelly quick access to jump gates (to be implemented). A good network of such will bring more atractiveness to battle.
- ship upgrades (to be implemented).
- decrease ship costs a bit, but increasing their maintenance costs. These allow faster building of ships but still having same amount of possible ships.
A system of bonuses will be implemented with officers/governors. So then having a good officer will matter. Why not having a "specialise in" parameter for them too?
This message was edited by Maverick
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Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 15-Dec-2008 16:12]
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make military buildings less powerfull or more expencive in research (Example: Now if you have a missile base in orbit you will not be able to destroy it with small early ships. I don't really like this )
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Instead of making them more expencive or take more research, just make them less powerful. If they are too expencive, then it become a matter of do I build defences or not, where cheap and weaker defences means I can have some, a reasonable amount, but not too much to make invasion too hard early on. So its limited defence, rather than all or nothing. As empires advance, then defences and ships both increase, so difficulty should remain constant.
Also, I think orbital production facility says in description that it helps repair ships (I think), so if a planet has one, then all ships in system could be repaired by 10% more each turn. This makes ships more useful for planetary defence.
All types of ship also need advantages. Right now bigger is always better, with any weapon or equipment, so this needs balancing a bit. So small ships have some (real) advantage over large ships. Not just speed, but an effect on battle. Maybe large ships should have MUCH lower evasion, where small ships VERY high evasion. This comes from speed, but also should come from size.
Also, at least for me, the problem with battles is 'Why bother?'. War is just a drain on the empire, and has little or no advantage. The cost of invading a planet, far exceeds the gain. Expecialy as it will be a long time before defences and production can be built on the new planet, and it can be taken easily by the original owner. I think that decreasing the cost of using income to hurry production would help a lot. Maybe 1 or 2 income per production would be a better price (not 4 income for 1). This would make it a more useful option, and not cost way too much. I find my planets queue for ages, and the cost of quick buying is just too high.
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Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
| [Post Date: 15-Dec-2008 20:39]
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Instead of making them more expencive or take more research, just make them less powerful. If they are too expencive, then it become a matter of do I build defences or not, where cheap and weaker defences means I can have some, a reasonable amount, but not too much to make invasion too hard early on. So its limited defence, rather than all or nothing. As empires advance, then defences and ships both increase, so difficulty should remain constant.
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You are right. Will decrease its "power"
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Also, I think orbital production facility says in description that it helps repair ships (I think), so if a planet has one, then all ships in system could be repaired by 10% more each turn. This makes ships more useful for planetary defence.
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Ships will be automaticaly repaired by 10 % each turn in a system you have a colony, regradless of which buildings are present. I know its not realy logical, but it free us from complicated calculatins and db checks.
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All types of ship also need advantages. Right now bigger is always better, with any weapon or equipment, so this needs balancing a bit. So small ships have some (real) advantage over large ships. Not just speed, but an effect on battle. Maybe large ships should have MUCH lower evasion, where small ships VERY high evasion. This comes from speed, but also should come from size.
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Actually they do have evasion differences. Difference between a titan and a corvette is 100 points. it affects precision up to 30% and 30% is already a hit for possible inflicted damage.
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Also, at least for me, the problem with battles is 'Why bother?'. War is just a drain on the empire, and has little or no advantage. The cost of invading a planet, far exceeds the gain. Expecialy as it will be a long time before defences and production can be built on the new planet, and it can be taken easily by the original owner. I think that decreasing the cost of using income to hurry production would help a lot. Maybe 1 or 2 income per production would be a better price (not 4 income for 1). This would make it a more useful option, and not cost way too much. I find my planets queue for ages, and the cost of quick buying is just too high.
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Thats why we paly it and balance it Decreasing production cost to 1-2 income will not really work. In a round we played I couldnt take a planet because the deffender constantly was bying star fortress because of loe costs. We ca decrease it to 3 incom for 1 production though. 
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