Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
 | [Post Date: 08-Jul-2008 20:18]
Could it be made that on your starting planet you have more population than normal colonised planets?
This makes sence, since this is your home and where you always lived, so population should start a bit higher?
Would speed the start up a bit
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Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
 | [Post Date: 08-Jul-2008 20:37]
thats a good idea
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Disrupter
[ Posts : 458 ]
 | [Post Date: 08-Jul-2008 22:35]
If anything it should start at 4 people max.
While having more people would be good and help grow, 4 people can also make things happen faster then would be fun or challenging.
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Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 08-Jul-2008 23:15]
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If anything it should start at 4 people max.
While having more people would be good and help grow, 4 people can also make things happen faster then would be fun or challenging.
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Well, its only that one planet, and the point is to speed the start up. The advantage soon becaomes small as you grow, as by this point you would have max population anyway, it will just make the first few turns faster...I was thinking maybe 50% planet max population, so a decent increase. Right now it takes 10 turns to research the first thing, thats a long time, as untill then their is nothing you can do.
In DQ:E you start with free resouces, 2 free col ships, so from turn 1 you can start exploring, building and colonising. So at least this will give you something to do, and help get those first few researches a bit faster...
Anyway, it will need testing and balancing anyway...but I think maybe more than 4, you have 2 normaly anyway.
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Disrupter
[ Posts : 458 ]
| [Post Date: 08-Jul-2008 23:39]
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Well, its only that one planet, and the point is to speed the start up. The advantage soon becaomes small as you grow, as by this point you would have max population anyway, it will just make the first few turns faster...I was thinking maybe 50% planet max population, so a decent increase. Right now it takes 10 turns to research the first thing, thats a long time, as untill then their is nothing you can do.
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Well 8 out of 16 people is alot, i have 6 now and 2 on everything i think. I also already have two researches done and half a building up in 30 turns. How much faster do you need it to go?
Its just exponential growth until your planet is full. Your planet will fill up twice as fast and then cap off along with your research and industry.
I think 50% max population is a little too much. Its more challenging to wait and see who's strategy works better. Besides, do you need it faster, last time, everything happened too fast, turns go by quick so do you really wanna sit there and check every 15 minutes?
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Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 08-Jul-2008 23:47]
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Well 8 out of 16 people is alot, i have 6 now and 2 on everything i think. I also already have two researches done and half a building up in 30 turns. How much faster do you need it to go?
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Ok, fair point. I have been thinking and as far as I can see, the best number is 5.
The reason is that with 4, as soon as your population grows by 1, you cant use it because it must be put on food (because you only have 4 from 1 farmer). With 5 though, you still can only use 3 from the start (must leave 2 on food), but as soon as the population gorws you can use the extra
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I think 50% max population is a little too much. Its more challenging to wait and see who's strategy works better. Besides, do you need it faster, last time, everything happened too fast, turns go by quick so do you really wanna sit there and check every 15 minutes?
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Well, yeah  The first few turns should allow this, because from creating an empire you expect to make some small changes for a little while after. In DQ:E you wait for the first satalites to arrive to dicide what to send your first 2 ships to, etc...
If the time between creating empire and doing anything is too long, people get bored. Also, most people will be free for an hour after creating the empire (lunch break at work/school, just got home, morning before going out etc) but any more and this window is gone, meaning maybe hours untill they will get time to check back again.
In this first hour you should have something you can do, like complete 1 research or something...
Anyway, thats my thoughts. The first few turns you can watch, after this probably not...
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Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
| [Post Date: 09-Jul-2008 10:36]
I agree that first few hors is quite boring, we have to think a lot about it.
My first thoughts were to add some buildings that don't give much, but could be built without any research. Second one is changing a little bit the engines research tree, such as fusion engine would be first in line. Then K gave the idea with more population on starting planet and this will faster things a bit.
On the other side, now my planet's population is maxed and I'm doing 1 research a turn, so first half of a first day is too slow, the second is quite fast already. I'll see how it evolves further.
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Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 09-Jul-2008 11:51]
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I agree that first few hors is quite boring, we have to think a lot about it.
My first thoughts were to add some buildings that don't give much, but could be built without any research. Second one is changing a little bit the engines research tree, such as fusion engine would be first in line. Then K gave the idea with more population on starting planet and this will faster things a bit.
On the other side, now my planet's population is maxed and I'm doing 1 research a turn, so first half of a first day is too slow, the second is quite fast already. I'll see how it evolves further.
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Yeah, my population grew to max over night. So already the increase in population would be canceled out by this point. So I think that would speed up the start.
Also the problem with science is that no matter how high it is set, we can aways make that kind of output, just we have to wait longer at the start, and after this point it just gets in the way of progress and gameplay.
I mean that with several planets, its easy to make enough points to complete any science in 1 turn, but to do so you need to stop all production and put everything on science. This is the best strategy as far as I can see, but if you do then the whole game becomes about making science...if the amount is to high you won't get chance to do much else...
I dont know, but me and Disrupter seem to have the same strategy, get science first and science buildings first, build everything else later.
Their is no real incentive to start building, and war is not a reason. In DQ:E players never want war, because they are not ready, everyone just wants to build and not risk their empire...and thats really going against the whole point of a war game If any players do start attacking everyone says they are being too agressive, this happened last round in DQ:E also
I think maybe stealing from others is the only incentive. In DQ:E mercs are the only ones who really attack, forcing other players to build defences etc. With just humans though, while the galaxy is full of empty planets, space and resources is not a problem...and while war is only a drain on production it has no purpose.
I dont know Its hard to think of a solution...
This message was edited by Emperor L
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Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
| [Post Date: 09-Jul-2008 12:22]
All you said has a point. By testing and restarting TG over and over we'll find a solution.
At this moment I'm planing following changes:
1. Decrease population growth rate for planets, thus increasing starting population would have a point. On a side note growth buildings become more important.
2. Make fusion drive first in research sub tree, thus decreasing time to frigate class.
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Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 09-Jul-2008 12:55]
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All you said has a point. By testing and restarting TG over and over we'll find a solution.
At this moment I'm planing following changes:
1. Decrease population growth rate for planets, thus increasing starting population would have a point. On a side note growth buildings become more important.
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But the problem here is that getting enough population to build the growth buildings will be a problem, you must build automated factories, then automated farms before anything. Else trying anything will be too slow...
I think this could work, but also colony ships should require and carry population. To colonise a planet you need at least 1 population on board, but can add as much as you want (although this removes that population from the world building it) and so at a cost to your economy in one planet you can improve your new colony on another.
Also, this gives growth buildings more use once your population is full. Because you will constantly be removing population from them. You could set up worlds just for expanding, and producing col ships.
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2. Make fusion drive first in research sub tree, thus decreasing time to frigate class.
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Another idea could be to put turn limits on researches. By this I mean certain research areas can only be unlocked after a set number of turns. Things like best weapons should come later, while the basic things availiable from the start. This prevents the continuous science loop that will happen. Because players will have to wait, even if they are making 10000 points per turn
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Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
| [Post Date: 09-Jul-2008 13:24]
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But the problem here is that getting enough population to build the growth buildings will be a problem, you must build automated factories, then automated farms before anything. Else trying anything will be too slow...
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On first planet it will be ok as you'll have enough population. On other planets it will be slower, but you have freighters for that. Transferring population becomes an important point in colony development.
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Another idea could be to put turn limits on researches. By this I mean certain research areas can only be unlocked after a set number of turns. Things like best weapons should come later, while the basic things available from the start. This prevents the continuous science loop that will happen. Because players will have to wait, even if they are making 10000 points per turn
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Well this is not quite fair for those who play often and/or have a good strategy. If someone is really good then he have no reason to research things until turn limit or why should I play smart if I have a restriction in front of me?
I have added a new ship class "Drones". It is available from the start. Now you'll need to research "fusion drive" only before starting to explore the galaxy. Frigate class will go to military ships were it belongs.
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Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 09-Jul-2008 13:46]
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On first planet it will be ok as you'll have enough population. On other planets it will be slower, but you have freighters for that. Transferring population becomes an important point in colony development.
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Yeah, freighters also work, so thats ok then I guess.
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Well this is not quite fair for those who play often and/or have a good strategy. If someone is really good then he have no reason to research things until turn limit or why should I play smart if I have a restriction in front of me?
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Yeah, I know...but I think the restrictions would help add strategy . Because it makes it more complex than just research everything. I think that research will become too big a draw on resources if you can keep doing one after the other. The situation I see is that you could build a ship now, or wait a few turns and build a ship with better weapons. If you wait a few more turns, you can build an even better ship, and so on until you complete everything. Their is always a reason to wait, and the problem is it holds you back from doing things now You sort of have an endless loop of research and never do much else untill it is all complete...
I know this depends on strategy, but if this is the best strategy then thats a problem
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I have added a new ship class "Drones". It is available from the start. Now you'll need to research "fusion drive" only before starting to explore the galaxy. Frigate class will go to military ships were it belongs.
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That will help, can start exploring some stars now from the start
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Disrupter
[ Posts : 458 ]
| [Post Date: 09-Jul-2008 14:50]
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Yeah, I know...but I think the restrictions would help add strategy . Because it makes it more complex than just research everything. I think that research will become too big a draw on resources if you can keep doing one after the other. The situation I see is that you could build a ship now, or wait a few turns and build a ship with better weapons. If you wait a few more turns, you can build an even better ship, and so on until you complete everything. Their is always a reason to wait, and the problem is it holds you back from doing things now You sort of have an endless loop of research and never do much else untill it is all complete...
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Thats exactly what i did last time, i waited to have all technologies before i even started building up ships. I couldnt use the highest levels on all ships, but i put the highest levels i could on whatever ships i built.
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Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
| [Post Date: 09-Jul-2008 14:57]
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Thats exactly what i did last time, i waited to have all technologies before i even started building up ships. I couldnt use the highest levels on all ships, but i put the highest levels i could on whatever ships i built.
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Yes, thats when you have no one to be afraid of. Wait until there will be some aggressive players and your planet will go down one by one even if you have superior technology. 
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Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 09-Jul-2008 16:47]
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Thats exactly what i did last time, i waited to have all technologies before i even started building up ships. I couldnt use the highest levels on all ships, but i put the highest levels i could on whatever ships i built.
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Yes, thats when you have no one to be afraid of. Wait until there will be some aggressive players and your planet will go down one by one even if you have superior technology.
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The DQ:E server was down for a while now...
Anyway, yeah, I guess...hopefully their will be lots of good players
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