Endless
[ Posts : 6 ]
 | [Post Date: 20-Aug-2005 06:30]
isn't the human growth in the beginning of the game too slow, by time age 300 comes around, we're too busy trying to get a min supply to be able to defend ourselves, compared to fagur, which can be quite strong at that point, it wouldn't be hard to assimilate everyone of the human planets. This is just my opinion, but i think humans build time for mines is too long. What is everyone else's opinion?
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fatcat_89
[ Posts : 18 ]
 | [Post Date: 22-Aug-2005 16:51]
I totally agree!! Human's are def. the weakest race in this game..the only thing its got going for it is that its easiest to play...
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Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
 | [Post Date: 23-Aug-2005 08:47]
Humans are slow in first part of the game and we are working to make him better, but humans are quite strong after.
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Endless
[ Posts : 6 ]
| [Post Date: 23-Aug-2005 09:00]
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Humans are slow in first part of the game and we are working to make him better, but humans are quite strong after.
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maverick is right, they are strong later, i would suggest maybe lowering the mine complex build time from the current 32 to 24, this should allow humans to grow fast enough to be ready at age 300.
that gives food 16 turns and mines 24.
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fatcat_89
[ Posts : 18 ]
| [Post Date: 23-Aug-2005 17:04]
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Humans are slow in first part of the game and we are working to make him better, but humans are quite strong after.
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Admittedly humans aren't too bad after..but suffer a big disadvantage to the krong, considering that krong's defense units are also the energy producing units, basically as if mines were defensive buildings. The reason for that is that its not unreasonable to have 500 or 600 CEC in a krong planet, producing energy, and since CECs are so strong, that would take a rediculous amount of bombers, and even more ridiculous amount of troops to take down. Whereas if a human built 900 military bases (roughly equal to the hp and damage of 600 CEC), then more than half the planet's surface is used up, leaving little space for mines and other industrial buildings. orbital bases help a bit in this, but unfortunately they are quite useless against fagur hordes, the strongest conquering race.
A possible compromise in this case would be to make separate defensive structures for krong, that do defence both in orbit (when i node is lifted) and in planet. Another possibility is to make military bases take one land space, so that more of them could be made, while at the same time leaving space for other buildings...
Basically, this post is out of concern for what happned last round at testing grounds. An alliance of the strongest human players was having a p[retty difficult time taking care of a single krong player because of the amount of CECs he had per planet, and the number of systems he made us lose with black holes...highlighting certain weaknesses that humans have and biased strength that krong has...
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skyraider
[ Posts : 328 ]
 | [Post Date: 23-Aug-2005 17:46]
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Admittedly humans aren't too bad after..but suffer a big disadvantage to the krong, considering that krong's defense units are also the energy producing units, basically as if mines were defensive buildings. The reason for that is that its not unreasonable to have 500 or 600 CEC in a krong planet, producing energy, and since CECs are so strong, that would take a rediculous amount of bombers, and even more ridiculous amount of troops to take down. Whereas if a human built 900 military bases (roughly equal to the hp and damage of 600 CEC), then more than half the planet's surface is used up, leaving little space for mines and other industrial buildings. orbital bases help a bit in this, but unfortunately they are quite useless against fagur hordes, the strongest conquering race.
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This is command game. You have alternative to use bombers. Merc can sabotage planet with 600 CEC use only 300000 spyunits, each spy unit cost 4-10 UC . So human cast place mission to sabotage this planet with 10000000 - 30000000 UC reward in mission shop.
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skyraider
[ Posts : 328 ]
| [Post Date: 23-Aug-2005 17:53]
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An alliance of the strongest human players was having a p[retty difficult time taking care of a single krong player
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It is the general mistake, game balanced for the Alliance of all four races.
Each race has the unique abilities and only together, with good coordination of actions, the alliance can obtain a victory and eliminate any enemy in universe.
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fatcat_89
[ Posts : 18 ]
| [Post Date: 24-Aug-2005 08:28]
Ok, I can believe that...but my only problem is that in such a case, the regular archer-cavalry-infantry method should follow..right? ie. fagur stronger than krong, krong stronger than human, and human stronger than fagur..on a single player basis..so that only an alliance with mixed races can succeed well..the only problem is humans can't conquer as easily as fagur because unlike fagur they have to face the enemy's fleets...and humans are also weaker than krong because krong fleets are stronger...
anyway..these are just my thoughts..if the game has been functioning this long with all these rules..then they must be working...
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Vhaeraun
[ Posts : 37 ]
| [Post Date: 24-Aug-2005 21:46]
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Ok, I can believe that...but my only problem is that in such a case, the regular archer-cavalry-infantry method should follow..right? ie. fagur stronger than krong, krong stronger than human, and human stronger than fagur..on a single player basis..so that only an alliance with mixed races can succeed well..the only problem is humans can't conquer as easily as fagur because unlike fagur they have to face the enemy's fleets...and humans are also weaker than krong because krong fleets are stronger...
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the game is not that simple, race wise. it might be easier like this
conquering colonizing planet defense
Fagur+ Fagur+ Fagur=
Human= Human= Human=
Krong--- Krong+++ Krong=
its not easy to explain like this. no race is stronger than the other so it aint the regular archer-cavalry-infantry method. fagur are good at early expansion and best at planetary invansion, they do have a good planetary defense, but then all races do. the humans they're slower at expansion than the fagur, but they're good at planetary bombardment and fleet wise, also very good at planetary defense with the orbital. the krong they're the slowest race at expansion in the begining but farther along they're may be able to colonize every single system, planet in the galaxy. to counter that they're not that good at defense. humans can bombard them, the krong just suck against the fagur. the krong just suck at planetary bombardment and they're pretty good at fleet battles.
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Quote
Humans are slow in first part of the game and we are working to make him better, but humans are quite strong after.
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Admittedly humans aren't too bad after..but suffer a big disadvantage to the krong, considering that krong's defense units are also the energy producing units, basically as if mines were defensive buildings. The reason for that is that its not unreasonable to have 500 or 600 CEC in a krong planet, producing energy, and since CECs are so strong, that would take a rediculous amount of bombers, and even more ridiculous amount of troops to take down. Whereas if a human built 900 military bases (roughly equal to the hp and damage of 600 CEC), then more than half the planet's surface is used up, leaving little space for mines and other industrial buildings. orbital bases help a bit in this, but unfortunately they are quite useless against fagur hordes, the strongest conquering race.
A possible compromise in this case would be to make separate defensive structures for krong, that do defence both in orbit (when i node is lifted) and in planet. Another possibility is to make military bases take one land space, so that more of them could be made, while at the same time leaving space for other buildings...
Basically, this post is out of concern for what happned last round at testing grounds. An alliance of the strongest human players was having a p[retty difficult time taking care of a single krong player because of the amount of CECs he had per planet, and the number of systems he made us lose with black holes...highlighting certain weaknesses that humans have and biased strength that krong has...
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krong maybe be stronger at planetary defense then the humans, but the humans can just bombard them like crazy. also u can build bombers alot, and the races were made that u have to team up with other races to win the game. ur war with the krong didnt' highlight anything, it may just mean that the person u fought was more experienced than u, and it also might mean that u werent' fighting him that well.
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Endless
[ Posts : 6 ]
| [Post Date: 24-Aug-2005 22:35]
i would say that each races strength is pretty equal, my only problem is humans growth in the beginning, takes far too long to start gaining minerals.
humans can attack from many different planets at once, building units in select points, which is one of their strongest feature, you don't have to keep moving your home system.
humans one weakness is being unable to compete with the fagurs expansion/assimilation, it's a pain in the ass to build ships, load transports then go take over a planet, only to fail and have to try again.
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razab
[ Posts : 19 ]
| [Post Date: 24-Aug-2005 23:06]
you should see what's going on this round in TG
absolutely right about ->colonizing .. crong ++++++++<- 
Quote
Basically, this post is out of concern for what happned last round at testing grounds. An alliance of the strongest human players was having a p[retty difficult time taking care of a single krong player because of the amount of CECs he had per planet, and the number of systems he made us lose with black holes...highlighting certain weaknesses that humans have and biased strength that krong has...
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fatcat_89
[ Posts : 18 ]
| [Post Date: 25-Aug-2005 06:24]
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you should see what's going on this round in TG
absolutely right about ->colonizing .. crong ++++++++<-
Quote
Basically, this post is out of concern for what happned last round at testing grounds. An alliance of the strongest human players was having a p[retty difficult time taking care of a single krong player because of the amount of CECs he had per planet, and the number of systems he made us lose with black holes...highlighting certain weaknesses that humans have and biased strength that krong has...
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well basically that's what i meant...caught in between fagurs crazy colonizing and krong's ability to colonize everything in sight...humans fall at a disadvantage..
in the beginning there's the disadvantage of slow growth..later on its the disadvantage of not being able to colonize anymore, but not being able to conquer as well as the fagur either..
on that note..i think a lot could be helped by changing the conquering battle..it would help if the planetary defenses hit the entire fleet instead of just the entering transports..that way some of the shock could be taken up by cap ships and what not..and we wouldn't loose so many transports. I know we can bomb..but more often than not i underestimate the bombers and totally wipe out a planet..in which case there is nothing left to conquer 
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fatcat_89
[ Posts : 18 ]
| [Post Date: 25-Aug-2005 07:43]
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Fagur+ Fagur+ Fagur=
Human= Human= Human=
Krong--- Krong+++ Krong=
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And i also think this is a bit wrong to put it this way...
firstly..human, fagur, and krong planetary defenses are not equal...
1. tachies are just as strong as military bases (only slightly weaker), yet require less space, meaning they can build more per planet
2. orbital bases are decently strong, but useless against fagur..only useful against humans and krong, who are big conquering races anyway. Even against krong and humans..they can be destroyed by strong capship and U3s..whereas planetary defences like those of fagur and krong only face bombers and y-units
3. krongs CECs are about 9.2 times stronger than human bases (base damage), AND they make energy..
why are these important? think of an average size (2500) planet..
- a human can't really build more than 500 military bases..cause they do nothing in terms of helping the empire..after 500 military bases..the human has 1500 space left for habitats, mines, and what not.
- On the same planet, a fagur can build 1000 Tachy and still have as much space left as a human, space left for building mroe stuff
- On the same planet, the fagur can land a lot of CECs (i'm not sure how much land a CEC takes up) and still not be bothered by it..because the space is being put to good use by it making energy..kinda like human mines..
so..basically..planet defence for the races is no way equal.
secondly..for conquering, krong is not ---. While it is true they have no command such as conquer..it's just as easy for them to bombard a planet into oblivion and then land on it..which is not exactly conquering..but pretty much the same...so maybe for conquering..krong is -, or maybe maximum --..because they dont have that good bombardment...
and with all this, lets remember that we haven't even mentioned U4s, that can take out entire enemy systems with multiple planets
This message was edited by fatcat_89
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Vhaeraun
[ Posts : 37 ]
| [Post Date: 25-Aug-2005 20:55]
U4s are only good against certain stars, which this advantage is easily by passed by colonizing on planets in systems that krong can't collapse.
and krong dont' have good bombardment, they have a terrible bombardment. if ur a krong player its not even worth trying to bombard a planet as u'll ruin ur empire just trying to take out one planet. it will take millions upon millions u1 just to take out one planet. its not possible for krong to bombard planets, unless you have some massive empire producing millions of u1 per turn then sure. even then you have to be careful.
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Vhaeraun
[ Posts : 37 ]
| [Post Date: 25-Aug-2005 21:01]
as for the CEC u need to supply them with crystals by mining and u also need crystals and metal for maintence, which means u have to balance the CEC with CM on a planet are across systems.
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