Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
 | [Post Date: 28-Jul-2008 23:53]
I want to see how much each weapon is effected by each range. So, I am going to build some titans with just plasma cannons and nothing else for weapons. Then will send 1 titan to a few stars when they build. Then set the range to far, medium and close.
Maverick, could you send a small fleet to fight them, but each fleet exactly the same except for range and these should each be close, medium and far.
Anyway, I need to build the titans first, so that may take a while, and I may not be able to set the range for a while, I wont be around in the morning or early afternoon, but it shouldnt matter if your fleets have right range...
Anyway, I am building 1 titan at each, they are all near you:
Pol-mex (close)
Dofe (medium)
Cordodra (far)
My fleets should build with medium range as default, so if you send your fleets with the ranges set as above, the battles should be right I think...
Anyway, they should work best close range...but we will see...
Anyway, all my old ships are headed to Nebu for the great battle with disrupter...
This message was edited by Emperor L
|
Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
 | [Post Date: 29-Jul-2008 10:43]
Ship sent. Range set as specified. Formation1.
|
Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 29-Jul-2008 12:02]
Ok, so. In the first turns of battle:
The far fleet, my ship did 110 hits of 278 shots and 1650 damage.
The medium fleet, my ship did 137 hits from 278 shots and 2055 damage.
The close fleet, my ship did 146 hits from 278 shots and 2190 damage.
I lost 135 damage on the medium fleet, and 540 on the far battle.
|
Disrupter
[ Posts : 458 ]
 | [Post Date: 29-Jul-2008 15:34]
Quote
Anyway, all my old ships are headed to Nebu for the great battle with disrupter...
|
|
Who ever said i would agree to that? Tell me how many ships im dealing with and i may send my rebuilt armada there. If not, then forget it.
|
Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
| [Post Date: 29-Jul-2008 16:00]
Quote
Quote
Anyway, all my old ships are headed to Nebu for the great battle with disrupter...
|
|
Who ever said i would agree to that? Tell me how many ships im dealing with and i may send my rebuilt armada there. If not, then forget it.
|
|
The idea was to add missing ships to your fleet, so it will be even
|
Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 29-Jul-2008 17:55]
Quote
Who ever said i would agree to that? Tell me how many ships im dealing with and i may send my rebuilt armada there. If not, then forget it.
|
|
Well, you dont have to if you dont want. Maybe Maverick can send some of his fleets?
Anyway, 430 cruisers, 12 frigates, 12 battle ships, 10 destroyers, 20 titans.
I will move my main fleet to Rewoa, and make a few smaller fleets with different formations and 30 ships (15 of my heavy battle cruisers and 15 subspace cruisers) to:
Besidcant (Formation 1)
Bothbooloth (Formation 2)
Botheldra (Formation 3)
Sullbooion (Formation 4)
They are to the right of your empire.
Now, as all ships are the same, I am guessing that they should all work out even in battle. Could you send 4 fleets exactly the same to fight these? And if it works out, the battles should be the same...
|
Maverick
[ Posts : 1331 ]
| [Post Date: 29-Jul-2008 18:12]
Quote
Now, as all ships are the same, I am guessing that they should all work out even in battle. Could you send 4 fleets exactly the same to fight these? And if it works out, the battles should be the same...
|
|
30 Cruisers? Which weapons do you want on my ships or doesn't matter? What range?
|
Disrupter
[ Posts : 458 ]
| [Post Date: 29-Jul-2008 18:17]
Quote
Anyway, 430 cruisers, 12 frigates, 12 battle ships, 10 destroyers, 20 titans.
|
|
I only have 255 to your 484, i will not fight you until the odds are more even 
|
Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 29-Jul-2008 19:32]
Yeah, is that ok? You can just add your ships to database cant you? So wont have to build them all 
Quote
Which weapons do you want on my ships or doesn't matter? What range?
|
|
Any, dont matter as long as all fleets are the same, including tactics/range/ships/etc.
I think only my fleets need a differet tactics, so everything is the same except the tactics 1 side...so in theory all 4 battles should be exactly the same, even though I have different tactics set.
|
Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 29-Jul-2008 19:45]
Ok, next lets test how good the potential of each range is.
I am thinking that short range is much better than the other ranges, because the weapons for this have more damage per space used. Long range seems most at disadvantage, so maybe some balancing is needed?
So, my thoughts are that plasma cannons are the best weapon no matter what. So, could you build several different titans with best armour/shield/engines/etc and on each use a different combination of weapons (not bombs though), any combination will do, but each should be different, and always use all the space given. Use any range for your fleet you think will be best, all my ships will be set to short range.
I will build a single titan in a few stars with best equipment and just plasma cannons, and set to short range. But I dont think any other titan can beat it in fire power, no matter what range/weapons are used against it...
So, lets test my theory and see, try and make a titan that can beat my plasma titans in fire power
Disrupter could try this also, I will build some titans now and send them some stars nearby and wait. But only send 1 titan against each.
EDIT:
Can you make sure you use a newly made titan class now, because maverick changed the values of weapons, and any old ship classes have higher attack because of this.
So make some new titan classes and use those, not an old titan class
This message was edited by Emperor L
|
Disrupter
[ Posts : 458 ]
| [Post Date: 29-Jul-2008 20:05]
Quote
So, lets test my theory and see, try and make a titan that can beat my plasma titans in fire power
Disrupter could try this also, I will build some titans now and send them some stars nearby and wait. But only send 1 titan against each.
EDIT:
Can you make sure you use a newly made titan class now, because maverick changed the values of weapons, and any old ship classes have higher attack because of this.
So make some new titan classes and use those, not an old titan class
This message was edited by Emperor L
|
|
Sounds good, will put some in order.
Edit: I ordered up 4 Titans, 2 of each type.
The types: Subspace Plasma Titan and Subspace Titan. (subspace and plasma and all subspace as the names suggest)
This message was edited by Disrupter
|
Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 29-Jul-2008 22:36]
Quote
Sounds good, will put some in order.
Edit: I ordered up 4 Titans, 2 of each type.
The types: Subspace Plasma Titan and Subspace Titan. (subspace and plasma and all subspace as the names suggest)
This message was edited by Disrupter
|
|
Ok, just out of interest, whats the attack of each type? This will be the base attack power, not counting the effect of range, formation etc, so we will see how that effects it. The attack of my plasma titans is 4170 and electronics bonus is 25%.
As far as I can see, plasma cannon gives the best base damage, and if my fleets are set to close, then the only possible outcomes is to fight in close or medium range (as far cant happen while 1 side is close). SO, if this is the case, then lik last time, my ship should loose 135 attack power because of the wrong range, but even then, it should (in theory) still be better than a mid range ship using mid range weapons? Thats what I want to see...if thats the case then the others need some balancing to make them more of an option, instead of just filling your ships with plasma cannons.
Also, really the better weapons should have higher attack, because they are more advanced, they shouldnt loose to plasma...
Finaly, I think that battles should be split down depending on range.
By this I mean, the first turn of battle only far weapons fire, the second far and medium weapons fire, and third turn and after all weapons can fire.
While long range weapons may have lower attack, they get to fire the first turn, so if 1 ship has all far weapons, and another all close, then the first turn one ship can fire alot, and cause alot of dammage, while the second has to wait a few turns before it can fire, and in this time may be destoryed. It will make ship design more stratigic, do you go for weak attacks from the start, or wait a bit and fire stong weapons, or have some combination of each?
|
Disrupter
[ Posts : 458 ]
| [Post Date: 29-Jul-2008 22:57]
Quote
Ok, just out of interest, whats the attack of each type? This will be the base attack power, not counting the effect of range, formation etc, so we will see how that effects it. The attack of my plasma titans is 4170 and electronics bonus is 25%.
As far as I can see, plasma cannon gives the best base damage, and if my fleets are set to close, then the only possible outcomes is to fight in close or medium range (as far cant happen while 1 side is close). SO, if this is the case, then lik last time, my ship should loose 135 attack power because of the wrong range, but even then, it should (in theory) still be better than a mid range ship using mid range weapons? Thats what I want to see...if thats the case then the others need some balancing to make them more of an option, instead of just filling your ships with plasma cannons.
Also, really the better weapons should have higher attack, because they are more advanced, they shouldnt loose to plasma...
|
|
Huh...thats messed up...
I just double checked cause i didnt believe you or wasnt sure if you have max everything, but you do. Thats stupid, a titan full of plasma cannons is twice as strong as a titan full of the "best" (or most advanced) guns.
My Subspace Plasma titans only do 2350 while my Subspace titans do even less at 1700.
Maybe i should send them 2 to 1 against you, ill probably still lost 3/4 ships to your (maybe) 2.
It should definetly be fixed though, youre right.
|
Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 30-Jul-2008 01:17]
Yeah, thats what I have been thinking. If I am right its impossible to build a titan with more attack than that, meaning the only weapons you need (or even should) use is plasma cannons, compaired to these nothing comes close.
Its not just these either, the problem is the damage to space ratio, and it seems to get more the better the weapon.
For example:
Laser Turret has 2 attack and 3 space, giving it 1.5 attack per space used.
Ion Turret has 7 attack and 5 space (same as plasma) giving it 1.4 attack per space.
Plasma cannon has 15 attack and 5 space, giving it 3 attack per space used (thats over 3 times better than sunspace beam).
Anti-matter Cannon has 25 attack and 13 space, giving it 1.9 attack per space used.
Subspace beam has 40 attack, and 50 space used. Giving it 0.8 attack per space used.
From this, sub space beam is the worst weapon of all, worse than even the Lazer turret.
Plasma is the best by far also.
The same works for torpedoes, but Proton Torpedo is the best here, but still not as good as the plasma cannon giving less than half the damage of that...
This is what I meant. While I may loose some power from using plasma cannon in the wrong range, its so powerful that even then its better than the right weapons for that range...
Anyway, I think thats the biggest reason why I have been destroying so many ships and looseing so few, because most my ships have tons of plasma cannons...
In a more balanced battle each side should loose equal ship numbers, even if one has way more ships, but because of this my ships have been doing like twice or 3 times the attack of the others, so that may be the problem...
BUT, this is just theory right now, I dont know how it really works in battle, thats why we need to do our test battles and see...so still send 1 titan to mine, and we can compair how much damage they really do, not just the max possible...
This message was edited by Emperor L
|
Emperor L
[ Posts : 1237 ]
| [Post Date: 30-Jul-2008 01:39]
Ok, I had a think, and here are some values that would work better I think:
Weapon Name | Attack | Space | Damage per space (not needed but for comparison)
Laser Turret | 2 | 5 | 0.4
Ion Turret | 4 | 5 | 0.8
Plasma cannon | 12 | 10 | 1.2
Anti-matter Cannon | 25 | 15 | 1.6
Subspace beam | 100 | 50 | 2
That works much better I think
|
|
